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Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 11:00 am
by awip2062
Even if all the framers were lawyers (I do not recall them all being so, but am not going to look it up right now), does not follow them putting how the document is to be interpreted in the document itself.
This was a time period much different from ours, as you have pointed out. Their time saw people believing that words had meaning and that the meaning was fixed and known by their readers. Even the common man of that day had a good head of knowledge.
An example of the difference of how they saw words and their meanings from how we do:
Today, when dictionary makers are working on a new dictionary, they send people out into the culture with the express task of listening/watching for the use of various words. These researchers are to find how the people are currently using the word and keep track of these uses. Those usages are what the dictionary maker uses to determine the meaning of words.
However, back when the first dictionary of our nation was written (completed in 1828), things were done much differently. Mr. Webster knew over 20 languages and he researched the words as they had come through other languages into our own. He looked at the roots of the words and the meanings (and the vagaries) of the words as far back as he could trace them and defined them based on what those words had meant for centuries. He never went out in the streets to see how his contemporaries were using the language.
This mindset is not one that sees words being changable to the times.
As for the lack of liberty if we interpret that word as to whom it was used about back in the late 1700s, this is, as I believe, why we have amendments. These amendments are what we are to use to "update" the document as our culture changes, not new laws that do not fit with the original meaning of the time it was written.
Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 6:03 am
by CygnusX1
The American Patriot of today is often the loyal legionnaire who dons his
clothes with prosthetic hand, without complaint...
The Patriot may be the stooped old man bagging groceries at the
supermarket. Now palsied and slow, he never mentions the firestorm on
Iwo Jima back in 1945, for he knows no one who could comprehend such
indescribable horror...
Patriots also are the hundreds of thousands of forgotten warriors who
went forth into battle for their country -- and who never returned...
Today's Patriot is usually the common man, the average citizen, the next
door neighbor, the man who selflessly gave to his country and asked for
nothing in return.
The American Patriot of today may be a minimum wage laborer -- the
same man who stormed into battle in Afghanistan in 2001 to restore
freedom for people he would never know. Duty called. He answered...
Historically, after diplomacy and reason have failed, our country always
relies on its modern-day Patriots, its military warriors.
Remember: when enemies and terrorists threaten, it is always the warrior,
not the politician, who ensures the survival of our society...
It is always the warrior, not the news media, who guarantees our
freedom of the press. When the flak flies it is the warrior, not the
lawyer, who preserves our civil liberties.....
(Excerpted from "Murphy's Laws of Combat" by Marion F. Sturkey)
Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 8:44 am
by CygnusX1
12 March, 2009
Air Force JTAC Receives AF Cross
I really enjoying hearing about JTACs receiving these honors. As a
former ANGLICO team leader, I was also a JTAC. More importantly
though, this warrior, Staff Sgt. Zachary Rhyner, should be an example to
all. - WJ
Despite injuries he sustained as the result of persistent insurgent fire,
Sergeant Rhyner coordinated more than 50 aerial attacks to continuously
repel the enemy during the beleaguering battle that occurred during his
first deployment.
According to the decoration citation, Sergeant Rhyner "provided
suppressive fire with his M-4 rifle against enemy fire
while fellow teammates were extracted from the line of fire."
"The team survived this hellish scene ... not by chance, not by luck and
not by the failings of a weak or timid foe," General Schwartz said.
The general spoke emotionally and with gratitude for the team's devotion
to duty and courage in the line of fire.
"A grateful nation could not be more proud for what you do and no doubt
what you will do," the general said.
Lt. Col. Michael Martin, the 21st STS commander, echoed the efforts of
Sergeant Rhyner and the aviators from above.
"Zac -- systematically with (F-15E) Strike Eagles, A-10 (Thunderbolt IIs)
and AH-64 (Apaches) -- unleashed hell on the enemy," Colonel Martin
said. "The enemy had the proverbial high ground that day on those
mountain ridge lines, but it was the aviators in the sky who truly held the
highest ground."
Colonel Martin credited the 335th Fighter Squadron from Seymour
Johnson AFB, N.C., and the 81st Fighter Squadron from Spangdahlem Air
Base, Germany, for providing critical close-air support during the battle.
Sergeant Rhyner's demonstration of teamwork among his colleagues and
flying units was the linear theme of the ceremony.
For the same battle, an unprecedented 10 Special Forces Soldiers received
Silver Stars, the Army's third highest award for valor in combat.
WJ Sez: Why aren't these stories featured on every damn news channel
in the USA? Men like Staff Sgt Rhyner go above and beyond the call of
duty almost every single day they step outside the wire.
But no, we are forced to listen about some welfare mother having 14
babies or American Idol. It's disgusting.
Semper Fi Staff Sgt Rhyner.
Posted by WarriorJason
Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 10:44 am
by awip2062
CygnusX1 wrote:
Today's Patriot is usually the common man, the average citizen, the next
door neighbor, the man who selflessly gave to his country and asked for
nothing in return.
Men whom we have here at BT!
Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 8:59 am
by Big Blue Owl
This mindset is not one that sees words being changable to the times.
I get that. People feel that it is an important enough document to never mess with, apart from amending it from time-to-time.
So what happened with the Old Testament? Written long before the one that has Jesus, miracles, virgin birth, the entire story that we all now know as the historical journey of Christ, God and man. Then, after a while, someone wrote an entirely new Bible with all of those things. Then, Joseph Smith re-wrote the Bible again and placed God on a planet near the star Kolob.
More examples of how the ORIGINAL story has been changed...drastically;
In Mormon theology, the Mormon god lives on his own planet and has many wives. Since the Mormon god is an exalted man, he, along with his many wives, have physical bodies of flesh and bone. As a result of their physical nature, they can produce children and do so continually throughout all eternity. Although the Mormon god and his wives have physical bodies, the children they produce are spiritual in nature. These spiritual children have a function by providing the covering for the "intelligences" that pare-exist. These intelligences become enclosed in the spiritual bodies of the children produced by the Mormon god and his wives and are the completed souls of human beings. The Mormon god and his wives continue to produce spiritual children for the "intelligences" to inhabit for thousand or even millions of years. The spiritual children live on the planet with their heavenly father and do what ever is required of them as sons and daughters. This time of existence on the planet of the heavenly father is called the "pare-existence" and also referred to as the "first estate".
Mormons must deny the creation account of the universe and man, as revealed in the Bible, because it does not agree with what they believe. In order to reject the account, they must find a reason to do so, but their standard reason for rejecting the portions of the Bible that do no support their other teachings, namely that the Bible was altered by corrupt Catholic priests or has been translated incorrectly, will not stand the test in the case of the book of Genesis. Historical and manuscript evidence prove those claims to be false. So they must simply deny the Biblical record as being untrue and substitute their own doctrine in its place, but in the process they remove the authority, truthfulness and accuracy of the Bible which they claim to be one of their scriptural authorities. By engaging in this action, the Mormon church reveals its true position regarding the authority of the Bible, making it subservient to their own doctrines rather than the Bible having authority over what they believe. The Mormon hierarchy only use the Bible in an authoritative manner when they believe that it supports their own pare-determined doctrines. In all other cases, where the Bible contradicts Mormon doctrine, it is rejected, claimed to have been altered and mistranslated.
The Mormon church places itself in a position from which it cannot extricate itself, because Joseph Smith, the first Prophet, President, Seer and Founder of the Mormon church made his own translation of the Bible, claiming the translation came through revelation from God, and left the Genesis account of creation virtually unchanged. So in rejecting the biblical, Genesis account, the Mormon church also rejects the authority of their own prophet, Joseph Smith, but they refuse to admit that is the case. They simply ignore the contradiction, and most adherents seem not to know or care about the problem that is created.
All that by way of noticing that even the most important rule book has been written, re-written and apparently made into a Space/Science double feature. So it seems that the Constitution has more staying power for some reason than the Big Book of rules to live and die by.
Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 7:38 am
by Big Blue Owl
Holy coincidence!
Speaking of religion, has anyone else heard that other Gods, such as Mithra of Persia, Dionysus/Bacchus, Horus/Osiris of Egypt, Krishna of India, Zoroaster/Zarathustra shared many identifying traits with our own Jesus of Nazareth?
Born on the same day (Dec. 25th) of a virgin, causing immaculate conception, baptized in a river, tempted in the wilderness by the devil, births were attended by 3 wise men bearing gifts and a star in the east, sacred day is Sunday, all had risen 3 days after being crucified, in most cases, nailed to wood between two thieves, walked on water, delivered sermons on mounts, and hundreds of other similarities and spot-ons.
One thing that is different is that most of these other Gods were born a thousand years before Jesus.
If anybody would like to see more detail (yeah, right
,) I can post each God and their attributes for an amazing comparison.
Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 5:41 am
by zepboy
Seems everyone wants to be a god anymore! lol
Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 9:19 pm
by awip2062
Haven't been around much, so haven't gotten to respond to these yet. Here's my response for ya, for whatever it is worth.
Re:
So what happened with the Old Testament? Written long before the one that has Jesus, miracles, virgin birth, the entire story that we all now know as the historical journey of Christ, God and man. Then, after a while, someone wrote an entirely new Bible with all of those things. Then, Joseph Smith re-wrote the Bible again and placed God on a planet near the star Kolob.
The Old Testament (OT) was written long before the New and it foretells about Jesus coming and why He was coming in addition to setting up the rules and laws of the Jewish nation and giving us their history.
It was not negated by the NT, however. Jesus said that He did not come to abolish it but to fulfill it. He quoted from various places in it showing he accepted it.
The NT is not a whole new Bible, but a continuation of G-d's Story. It tells of His birth, life on earth, death, resurrection and return to heaven. It also tells the story of the beginning of the Christian Church, sets doctrine for the Christian life, and gives prophecies of the end times. It is not intended to replace the OT but to complete it.
As for the part about Joseph Smith, I can give you what I have learnt from my Mormon friends, but the best answers you will receive will come from practicing Mormons.
I know that Joseph Smith did not write a whole new Bible. In fact, the Mormons use the same Bible as Baptists, Presbyterians, et cetera. What Joseph Smith did was translate tablets that had additional information on them about the work of Christ here on this continent and about Jews who left Israel before the time of Christ. If you go to the Latter Day Saint site about their scriptures you will see they have both the Old and New Testaments listed there as well as the Book of Mormon, which they call "Another Testament of Jesus Christ." There are also two other books that they have in their scriptures called Doctrine and Covenants and The Pearl of Great Price. Mormons believe that some things in the OT and NT got distorted and that was part of why Joseph Smith was given the new book, so that people could know the truth and error be corrected.
Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 9:19 pm
by awip2062
Big Blue Owl wrote:
If anybody would like to see more detail (yeah, right
,) I can post each God and their attributes for an amazing comparison.
Please do post them. I'd be interested in seeing what you have.
I will say this, though, the Bible does not say that Jesus was born on 25 December, or when He was born. Likely it was earlier in the year as the shepherds were out in the fields. The Catholic church chose that day to celebrate His birth many years after His life here.
Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 5:53 am
by CygnusX1
awip2062 wrote: The Catholic church chose that day to celebrate His birth many years after His life here.
I thought a Roman Emperor chose Dec. 25 because it used to be a day of
sin under previous rule?
Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 6:48 am
by CygnusX1
It's a shame we haven't learned from this in two Millenia:
"The arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled, and
assistance to foreign hands should be curtailed, lest Rome fall."
Cicero, 55 B.C.
Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 1:37 pm
by zepboy
Anyone have Obama's email? I'd like to forward that.
Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 1:58 pm
by Big Blue Owl
Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 2:21 pm
by zepboy
^^^^^^^
You nut! lol
Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 2:29 pm
by Big Blue Owl
You've got that right, Zep.
How ya doin', man?