By-Tor.com

"As far as I'm concerned, war always means failure." - Jacques Chirac

"As far as France is concerned, you're right." - Rush Limbaugh

"We in government should learn to look at our country with the eyes of the entrepreneur, seeing possibilities where others see only problems."

-- Ronald Reagan

"I'll give your President the same respect you gave mine"

- bumpersticker seen on I-95 recently

Y'know, when it comes to racism, people say, "I don't care if they are black, white, purple or green.
Ah, hold on now...purple or green...you have to draw the line somewhere. To Hell with purple people!
Unless they are suffocating.
Then help them.
-Mitch

^^^

I like that one

"It only stands to reason that where there's sacrifice, there's someone collecting the sacrificial offerings. Where there's service, there is someone being served. The man who speaks to you of sacrifice is speaking of slaves and masters, and intends to be the master."

-- Ayn Rand

ElfDude wrote:"It only stands to reason that where there's sacrifice, there's someone collecting the sacrificial offerings. Where there's service, there is someone being served. The man who speaks to you of sacrifice is speaking of slaves and masters, and intends to be the master."

-- Ayn Rand

Booya

Hahahah! "Booya."

If that statement has any validity, and is not inherently evil and blasphemous, then how can we dare to say we seek redemption through the sacrifice of His Only Begotten Son?
Is the God - Human relationship one of slave and master?

Big Blue Owl wrote:Hahahah! "Booya."

If that statement has any validity, and is not inherently evil and blasphemous, then how can we dare to say we seek redemption through the sacrifice of His Only Begotten Son?
Is the God - Human relationship one of slave and master?

I've been rolling that thought around in my head for a couple of days, since I first saw the quote. I've kind of got my answer, but I'm not quite yet ready to put it into words. I'll try soon though.

Big Blue Owl wrote:Hahahah! "Booya."

If that statement has any validity, and is not inherently evil and blasphemous, then how can we dare to say we seek redemption through the sacrifice of His Only Begotten Son?
Is the God - Human relationship one of slave and master?

Okay... here's the "rough draft" of my thoughts:

Let?s start with the true meaning of the word sacrifice. We find in it the same root as the word sacred.

In the truest sense of the word, when you sacrifice something, you take it and you make it sacred. When something has been made sacred, it is a sacrament.

In the world of Christianity we believe God the Father sacrificed His only begotten son in order to save mankind. The Saviour Himself made the ultimate sacrifice in living a sinless life, then paying the price for the sins of man and in the end giving His own life so that we might all resurrect. His sacrifice was truly sacred.

I don?t know what Ms. Rand thought about God, but she was definitely talking about men and not God.

God asks very little sacrifice from His children as I see it. Forsake the sins of the world and do a few things like repentance and baptism. And for some of the sacrifice He asks that seems hard to us at first, He always promises something much greater in return. For example, He asks us to tithe ourselves. But look at what His promise is in regards to that:

?Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.?

And He doesn?t even ask us to do it blindly. He challenges us to try it and prove him. Well.. on a personal note regarding this particular principle, I have proved Him and He keeps his word. And in the end, if we are obedient He promises us all that He has.

And what it really all comes down to, when the Lord asks us to sacrifice and to serve our fellow men, He?s merely trying to teach us to be more like Him. And he gives us our agency. Many chose not to do any of these things. And God does not suddenly appear before them and smite them.

When men ask us to sacrifice, they tend to be men in government. This is what Ayn was talking about. When you are told by a politician that you need to sacrifice, what is he really saying? ?You haven?t been paying enough taxes. The government has big plans for the money you earn and we intend to take it from you. And look at how selfish you?ve been! A top tier tax rate of 28%? You selfish pig! How dare you only pay 28% of your income to us? You?re rich and you?re getting more than you deserve! Give it to us, the government, who are the ones who truly deserve your money!?

That?s the blasphemy, IMO. Politicians make a mockery of the true meaning of sacrifice. When God asks for sacrifices and offerings, He asks us to learn to have giving hearts, and to do it of our own freewill. Government threatens us with confiscation of property and imprisonment if we do not make the ?sacrifices? it demands of us. God offers us the ultimate freedom and joy. Power-hungry politicians seek to enslave us.

That's what I think anyway.

Yes. I understand. And I understand the view of the religious Right-side.

God offers us the ultimate freedom and joy. Power-hungry politicians seek to enslave us.

Unfortunately for us all, neither can be proven.

Big Blue Owl wrote:Yes. I understand. And I understand the view of the religious Right-side.

God offers us the ultimate freedom and joy. Power-hungry politicians seek to enslave us.

Unfortunately for us all, neither can be proven.

Except by time. History shows us quite a list of men who have sought to (and many times acheived their goal) enslave a population. One can learn from that history and watch men who currently say the same things, use the same tactics, etc. as thug dictators of the past (notice I'm not naming names here) and try to stop these men. Or one can ignore history and let it repeat itself. Or any number of steps in between.

But yeah... when it comes to God, Neil summed it up pretty well when he wrote, "You bet your life".

Should'a been, "You bet your afterlife."

AND I QUOTE!!!!!!!!!!

You Bet Your Life lyrics

Just another hunter, like a wolf in the sun
Just another junkie on a scoring run
Just another victim of the things he has done
Just another day...in the life of a loaded gun

The odds get even
You name the game
The odds get even
The stakes are the same
You bet your life...

Just another winner, pours his life down the drain
Just another island in a hurricane
Just another loser, like a cat in the rain
Just another day...in the path of a speeding train

The odds get even
You name the game
The odds get even
The stakes are the same
You bet your life...

Anarchist reactionary running dog revisionist
Hindu muslim catholic creation / evolutionist
Rational romantic mystic cynical idealist
Minimal expressionist post-modern neo-symbolist

Arm chair rocket scientist graffiti existentialist
Deconstruction primitive performance photo realist
Be-bop or a one drop or a hip hop lite pop metallist
Gold adult contemporary urban country capitalist

Just another gypsy with a plastic guitar
Just another dancer with her eyes on the stars
Just another dreamer who was going too far
Just another drunk...at the wheel of a stolen car

The odds get even
You name the game
The odds get even
The stakes are the same
You bet your life...

Anarchist reactionary running dog revisionist
Hindu muslim catholic creation / evolutionist
Rational romantic mystic cynical idealist
Minimal expressionist post-modern neo-symbolist

Arm chair rocket scientist graffiti existentialist
Deconstruction primitive performance photo realist
Be-bop or a one drop or a hip hop lite pop metallist
Gold adult contemporary urban country capitalist

Rands statement definitely refers to men not god as she wouldn't acknowledge a god being strictly atheistic.

Most of her problem with the statement is firstly, that no man should bow to another and should seek his own happiness, through production. She was very libertarian, and anti-socialist (real surprise from a defected russian no?)

Another of her main issues is hypocrisy, her stated archetypes do not respond well to hypocrisy, and are more rooted in stoicism. The big problem she is addressing is those asking you to sacrifice are not sacrificing, but trying to gain power over you by having you feed them and others, without your choosing, but by theft through levy and taxes, etc.

Asside from that she really stresses how abused the people who do keep countries going through production, innovation, and sweating out the tough ideas are, and how well our country would function if they said no more. She glorifies the person with the idea, but does not require the idea be shared, and why should it be shared if all society will do is use it to take more from you.


A large basis of Rand in a nutshell.