Katrina

[Walkinghairball]

No Schu I do get your point kiddo, Bush is the Captain of the starship USA...............And the Captain is sapposta go down with the ship. But the one thing that does get me is, how was the Tsunami aid there so fast from all over, and why was this one so different to aid? I don't get that.

This thing is shitty all the way around, PERIOD. But................. Hell if I had the answers I would have had it fixed myself.

[Grandpa Grizz]

I'll forego my opinions about the incredibly slow response. I am just relieved that help finally arrived, and most of the survivors are now out of the city.

[rushlight]

This is so beautiful......



http://aolsvc.news.aol.com/news/article ... 3909990002

[by-tor]

While I respect the opinion of everyone on here, you have to realize that if your only source of information is the media in this matter, not only do you not have the whole story, but you have alot of misinformation. I posted this on A.M.R. yesterday....

First off let me say that New Orleans is my home town. I was born and raised there. Graduated from Covington High School on the North Shore. Was living in Slidell when I got the job I have now in Buffalo. South Louisiana was my home for the first 37 years of my life. I know the cities and towns, I know the people, and I know the lifestyle. All of my family and friends still live there, and most of them are homeless now. While it tears me up inside to see what has happened to my home, it hurts me even more to see the media and many people in this country playing the blame game and pointing fingers while the disaster is far from over.

Most of you who have never lived in an area where something like this can happen, have no basis to understand what truly went wrong or to understand who is really at fault. All of us from there are at fault. Not Bush, not Blanco (Governor of Louisiana), not Nagin (Mayor of New Orleans), not all of the U.S. Government from 1965 on. Complacency is the culprit here. We knew of the risk all our lives, dodged a bullet or two here and there, but we became complacent; we began to believe that this would never happen. How many times have you seen someone on TV after a terrible accident or disaster saying that they never thought it would happen to them? That was us.

9/11 is a perfect example. We had problems here and there, a bomb, a threat, but we as Americans never thought that something on the scale of 9/11 could happen here. It can't happen to us. We're American's dammit. Well we got to big for our britches, and we were brought back down to Earth.

The only real blame that should (could) come out of this is if we don't learn that we are at risk from something other than al Qaeda. I'm sure the people of San Francisco are much like the people of the Gulf South were before the storm hit. I'm sure they've heard the warnings a billion times, and that it has just become a part of life there. They probably joke about the "Big One" the same way we did.

Why don't we stop the finger pointing, learn from our mistakes, and maybe the next time something like this happens we will be better prepared to handle it.

To address a few of the points brought up here....

Xan : Buses were brought to the city prior to the storm. For those who could not, or would not leave the city when the mandatory evacuation was ordered, Mayor Nagin sent RTA buses throughout the city, taking everyone who was willing to any one of the 11 evacuation centers. However, being that the city was not under martial law, the Mayor could not force people to leave their homes. Keep in mind what I said above about complacency.

Schu : 3500 National Guard troops were in place Sunday before the storm hit (my uncle being one of them). However, once the levee broke Monday night/Tuesday morning, they were trapped in the city like the people who stayed behind. The media keeps making reference to the time that the storm made landfall, as the time the problems started, but that is not the case. After the storm came ashore, it looked as if New Orleans was sparred (we dodged another bullet). It wasn't until almost 24 hours later, when the 17th Street Canal levee broke that New Orleans was in trouble. As for it being Bush's fault, it doesn't work that way here. The state governments are responsible for the day to day tasks of their state (we fought a big war over State's Rights almost 150 years ago). I'm not blaming the state or local government here, just letting you know that the safety and preperation is their responsibility.

Steps were taken. Steps that had worked countless times in the past. Betsy, Camilie, Fran, Bob, Andrew, Georges, etc. Except this turned out to be the 'Big One' that those of us from down there just didn't believe was ever going to happen. We got complacent, and now we're paying the price for our arrogence. This is no one's fault, but we're all responsible.

[Walkinghairball]

Posted by Elfdude, on another board: Sep 6 2005, 07:43 AM

There were over 3000 national guard members in New Orleans in anticipation of trouble. When all hell broke loose (the day after the hurricaine) they were there, but they were in the same situation as everyone who refused to be evacuated... vehicles underwater, etc. They are under the control of the state's governer. And in fact she is still refusing to turn control of the national guard over to the feds.

The state and local government there pleaded with everyone to evacuate days before the event. Since martial law was not in place they couldn't enforce it, but they begged. They even made sure EVERYONE there knew that if they didn't leave there would be no help for them. I think the exact quote was, "You will be on your own!" And to their credit, they evacuated over 1,000,000 people. But there remained thousands who simply refused.

A huge difference between this event and 9/11 that I've noticed is a complete lack of leadership in Lousiana. In New York City, both the mayor and the governor really took charge and showed tremendous leadership. In Louisiana, they whine and complain to the cameras. Big help.

[Walkinghairball]

Also posted by Elfdude, on another board: Sep 6 2005, 05:25 PM


I just read some quotes from the city of New Orleans' Comprehensive Emergency Management Plan. If there is still a question in anyone's mind who has first responsibilty in an emergency, check out this paragraph:

'We coordinate all city departments and allied state and federal agencies which respond to citywide disasters and emergencies through the development and constant updating of an integrated multi-hazard plan. All requests for federal disaster assistance and federal funding subsequent to disaster declarations are also made through this office. Our authority is defined by the Louisiana Emergency Assistance and Disaster Act of 1993, Chapter 6 Section 709, Paragraph B, 'Each parish shall maintain a Disaster Agency which, except as otherwise provided under this act, has jurisdiction over and serves the entire parish.

The "we" in this case is the office of the mayor, Ray Nagin who was very quick and vocal about blaming everyone but his own office. By the way, it also stipulates that

for people who have no transportation, that city municipal transportation, school buses, public buses, will be used to get them out of the city.

This picture taken by the Associated Press illustrates how well the mayor's office followed their own contingency plan.



My point is not to point my finger at the mayor and yell, "It's all his fault!" It's just to point out that he's got no business pointing his finger at the president and yelling, "It's all his fault!"

[Soup4Rush]

no matter who is to blame, I hope they all work together and restore New Orleans to the great city it once was and all the people who live there can get back to a normal life again as soon as possible. Good to hear your family is safe By-tor.

[Me]

Your right Soupy the time has past for the bickering to stop, that surely isn't accomplishing anything.

Here's an artical I came across today and I quite agree. Hopefully New Orleans will continue to be the beautiful city with it's diverse culture for along time to come.

September 7, 2005 latimes.com : Opinion Print E-mail story Most e-mailed Change text size

EDITORIAL
Let nature help
THE CATASTROPHE THAT DEVASTATED New Orleans has been centuries in the making. Since its founding in 1718, the city has lain uneasily between two watery and potentially lethal boundaries: Lake Pontchartrain to the north and the Mississippi River to the south.

Engineers have protected the city over the years by fortifying the earthen barriers between high water and low land. New Orleans' efforts to keep dry also sank it lower ? a process called subsidence, caused when groundwater is pumped regularly out of silty soil. At the same time, the levees and canals around New Orleans diverted the flow of river sediment, dumping it in the Gulf of Mexico instead of allowing it to spread to the protective marshes and islands at the river's mouth.

ADVERTISEMENT

In 1965, Hurricane Betsy brought a heavy hint of the dangers when a surge of storm water caused Lake Pontchartrain to overflow the levees, flooding large parts of the city. But that flood pales in comparison to the devastation of Hurricane Katrina's water surge, which caused a series of levee breaks that allowed the lake water to fill the bowl that is greater New Orleans.

For the next several weeks, and possibly months, the Army Corps of Engineers will pump the water out. Meanwhile the Corps, Congress and the Bush administration need to figure out how to avoid a repeat of last week's disaster. Clearly, if they plant the 1.3 million residents back in the bowl, after billions of dollars spent on cleanup and rebuilding, they'll need to devise better protection.

After Hurricane Betsy, Congress authorized a $732-million effort to raise the levees around the city to 16 feet. After a flood in 1995 claimed six lives, lawmakers authorized an equally ambitious venture to refortify the city's slowly sinking defenses. Finishing these projects took a back seat during the last few years to war and homeland security. Even if they are now fast-tracked to completion, they aren't enough to guarantee New Orleans protection against another Katrina-strength storm. Other nations ? most notably the Netherlands ? have engineered stronger, smarter levees and other coastal defenses, such as floodgates and raised shelters.

Devastating hurricanes are more likely in coming years. Warmer ocean surface temperatures, no matter what their cause, fuel more violent hurricanes, which derive their power from the water's heat.

One of the most effective shore defenses has been not only ignored but undermined. Barrier islands and the marshes of the Mississippi River Delta used to present hurricanes with a formidable land barrier to cross before reaching New Orleans. But the very levees and canals that protect New Orleans and provide navigation divert replenishing sediment. Louisiana loses about 24 square miles of this land barrier each year.

A plan backed by environmentalists, industry and the Corps of Engineers would spend $2 billion to dredge sediment from the Gulf to be used in rebuilding the land, and divert some river sediment toward the marshland. Congress should not only approve that project but should start giving serious consideration to the rest of a $14-billion coastal restoration project supported by 11 state and federal agencies.

Funding environmental projects isn't just a luxury that makes tree-huggers happy. It's a natural way to protect people and a bargain compared with the economic and human toll exacted by Katrina.

[Kares4Rush]

I love reading about solutions to things and how they come about. It fascinates me and I drink in information like lemonade (my fave). I love to try and learn ?how things work? outside my realm of normal day-to-day stuff.

?And The Geek Shall Inherit The Earth.? God Bless them! I know many Rushians are geeks and proud to be one (I?m more of a ?dork? myself) and I am VERY proud of them.

I found this article on technology and saving lives fascinating. I, myself own one of those new ?crank? flashlights and after the blackout of ?03 here in NY I DON?T leave home without it?

The thought process is simple (for a dork to read), clear, direct and without pathos, anger or blame. I ?unclenched? reading it and I hope you enjoy it too.

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/SiliconI ... 743&page=1

[Me]

Yet another point of view

Don't Refloat
The case against rebuilding the sunken city of New Orleans.
By Jack Shafer
Posted Wednesday, Sept. 7, 2005, at 12:19 PM PT



What's to rebuild?

Nobody can deny New Orleans' cultural primacy or its historical importance. But before we refloat the sunken city, before we think of spending billions of dollars rebuilding levees that may not hold back the next storm, before we contemplate reconstructing the thousands of homes now disintegrating in the toxic tang of the flood, let's investigate what sort of place Katrina destroyed.

The city's romance is not the reality for most who live there. It's a poor place, with about 27 percent of the population of 484,000 living under the poverty line, and it's a black place, where 67 percent are African-American. In 65 percent of families living in poverty, no husband is present. When you overlap this New York Times map, which illustrates how the hurricane's floodwaters inundated 80 percent of the city, with this demographic map from the Greater New Orleans Community Data Center, which shows where the black population lives, and this one that shows where the poverty cases live, it's transparent whom Katrina hit the hardest.

New Orleans' public schools, which are 93 percent black, have failed their citizens. The state of Louisiana rates 47 percent of New Orleans schools as "Academically Unacceptable" and another 26 percent are under "Academic Warning." About 25 percent of adults have no high-school diploma.


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The police inspire so little trust that witnesses often refuse to testify in court. University researchers enlisted the police in an experiment last year, having them fire 700 blank gun rounds in a New Orleans neighborhood one afternoon. Nobody picked up the phone to report the shootings. Little wonder the city's homicide rate stands at 10 times the national average.

This city counts 188,000 occupied dwellings, with about half occupied by renters and half by owners. The housing stock is much older than the national average, with 43 percent built in 1949 or earlier (compared with 22 percent for the United States) and only 11 percent of them built since 1980 (compared with 35 for the United States). As we've observed, many of the flooded homes are modest to Spartan to ramshackle and will have to be demolished if toxic mold or fire don't take them first.

New Orleans puts the "D" into dysfunctional. Only a sadist would insist on resurrecting this concentration of poverty, crime, and deplorable schools. Yet that's what New Orleans' cheerleaders?both natives and beignet-eating tourists?are advocating. They predict that once they drain the water and scrub the city clean, they'll restore New Orleans to its former "glory."

Only one politician, Speaker of the House Dennis Hastert, dared question the wisdom of rebuilding New Orleans as it was, where it was. On Wednesday, Aug. 31, while meeting with the editorial board of the Daily Herald of Arlington Heights, Ill., he cited the geographical insanity of rebuilding New Orleans. "That doesn't make sense to me. ? And it's a question that certainly we should ask."

"It looks like a lot of that place could be bulldozed," Hastert added.

For his candor and wisdom, Hastert was shouted down. Sen. Mary L. Landrieu, D-La., and others interpreted his remarks as evidence of the Republican appetite for destruction when it comes to disaster victims. But if you read the entire interview?reproduced here courtesy of the Daily Herald?you might conclude that Hastert was speaking heresy, but he wasn't saying anything ugly or even Swiftian. Klaus Jacob seconded Hastert yesterday (Sept. 6) in a Washington Post op-ed. A geophysicist by training, he noted that Katrina wasn't even a worst-case scenario. Had the storm passed a little west of New Orleans rather than a little east, the "city would have flooded faster, and the loss of life would have been greater."

Nobody disputes the geographical and oceanographic odds against New Orleans: that the Gulf of Mexico is a perfect breeding ground for hurricanes; that re-engineering the Mississippi River to control flooding has made New Orleans more vulnerable by denying it the deposits of sediment it needs to keep its head above water; that the aggressive extraction of oil and gas from the area has undermined the stability of its land.

"New Orleans naturally wants to be a lake," St. Louis University professor of earth and atmospheric sciences Timothy Kusky told Time this week. "A city should never have been built there in the first place," he said to the Atlanta Journal-Constitution.

Why was it? Settlers built the original city on a curve of high flood land that the Mississippi River had deposited over eons, hence the nickname "Crescent City." But starting in the late 1800s and continuing into the early 20th century, developers began clearing and draining swamps behind the crescent, even dumping landfill into Lake Pontchartrain to extend the city.

To chart the aggressive reclamation, compare this map from 1798 with this one from 1908. Many of New Orleans' lower-lying neighborhoods, such as Navarre, the Lower Ninth Ward, Lake Terrace, and Pontchartrain Park, were rescued from the low-lying muck. The Lower Ninth Ward, clobbered by Katrina, started out as a cypress swamp, and by 1950 it was only half developed, according to the Greater New Orleans Community Data Center. Even such "high" land as City Park suffered from flooding before the engineers intervened. By the historical standards of the 400-year-old city, many of the heavily flooded neighborhoods are fresh off the boat.

The call to rebuild New Orleans' levee system may be mooted if its evacuated residents decide not to return. The federal government, which runs the flood-insurance business, sold only 85,000 residential and commercial policies?this in a city of 188,000 occupied dwellings. Coverage is limited to $250,000 for building property and $100,000 for personal property. Because the insured can use the money elsewhere, there is no guarantee they'll choose to rebuild in New Orleans, which will remain extra-vulnerable until the levees are rebuilt.

Few uninsured landlords and poor home owners have the wherewithal to rebuild?or the desire. And how many of the city's well-off and wealthy workers?the folks who provide the city's tax base?will return? Will the doctors, lawyers, accountants, and professors have jobs to return to? According to the Wall Street Journal, many businesses are expected to relocate completely. Unless the federal government adopts New Orleans as its ward and pays all its bills for the next 20 years?an unlikely to absurd proposition?the place won't be rebuilt.

Barbara Bush will be denounced as being insensitive and condescending for saying yesterday that many of the evacuees she met in the Astrodome would prefer to stay in Texas. But she probably got it right. The destruction wrought by Katrina may turn out to be "creative destruction," to crib from Joseph Schumpeter, for many of New Orleans' displaced and dispossessed. Unless the government works mightily to reverse migration, a positive side-effect of the uprooting of thousands of lives will to be to deconcentrate one of the worst pockets of ghetto poverty in the United States.

Page One of today's New York Times illustrates better than I can how the economic calculations of individuals battered by Katrina may contribute to the city's ultimate doom:

In her 19 years, all spent living in downtown New Orleans, Chavon Allen had never ventured farther than her bus fare would allow, and that was one trip last year to Baton Rouge. But now that she has seen Houston, she is planning to stay.

"This is a whole new beginning, a whole new start. I mean, why pass up a good opportunity, to go back to something that you know has problems?" asked Ms. Allen, who had been earning $5.15 an hour serving chicken in a Popeyes restaurant.

New Orleans won't disappear overnight, of course. The French Quarter, the Garden District, West Riverside, Black Pearl, and other elevated parts of the city will survive until the ultimate storm takes them out?and maybe even thrive as tourist destinations and places to live the good life. But it would be a mistake to raise the American Atlantis. It's gone.

******

Apologies to Louis Armstrong, Fats Domino, Ernie K-Doe, Allen Toussaint, Tipitina's, Dr. John, Clarence "Frogman" Henry, Jelly Roll Morton, Jessie Hill, Lee Dorsey, the Meters, Robert Parker, Alvin Robinson, Joe "King" Oliver, Kid Stormy Weather, Huey "Piano" Smith, Aaron Neville and his brothers (falsetto is the highest expression of male emotion), Frankie Ford, Chris Kenner, Professor Longhair, Wynton Marsalis and family, Sidney Bechet, and Marshall Faulk. I await your hate mail at slate.pressbox@gmail.com. (E-mail may be quoted unless the writer stipulates otherwise.)

[Devil's Advocate]

Do statements like: "... it's a black place, where 67 percent are African-American" really belong in an argument over whether to rebuild the city?


There is a strong argument to be made that N.O. is gone and that rebuilding it is futile. But racial demographics are not part of that argument.

[awip2062]

Statements like that don't belong, you are right.

[Xanadu]

If any of those people are smart they wouldn't want to move back there anyhow...it would be too stupid to build it back.

[rushlight]

Hurricane Rita is coming near my area. We're just watching and waiting. They showed on the news that the texas coast is getting some rough waves. I'll keep you up to date.

[Middle Kingdom]

Be safe Rushlight.