Olive Branch

[neilpeart_gal]

I noticed the passions thread had been moved. I PMd Schuette and asked why. If it was decided that it needed to be because of the 'war' parts in it, I have no problems with that. Its not my board and not my decision.

Now I come back here and see I've some how 'contributed to the war'? How, exactly? Anytime this was asked about in the other threads, I did not reply because I didn't want to feed the flames. I didn't PM people and say 'hey here's what Aero did' blah blah cos I THOUGHT there was this thing called 'water under the bridge.'

As far as I remember, I had said that I couldn't continue to post here if they did. They were asked to leave, NOT BY ME OR CHAS. I still did not feel right posting here right afterwards because I knew Aero et al still had friends here and I saw no point into getting into some unnecessary debate. So I chose to leave here for a while, let things chill out. I come back, no big 'HI I'm here' announcement, just started posting. But I guess that means I'm contributing to the war. Whatever.

I had posted here for a long time and made some lifelong friends. But if I'm going to be told that I contributed to the flame war, then I obviously cannot do anything to change that perception.

Enjoy your board, make friends and get their email addresses. Cos chances are high you'll one day need them to keep in touch.

Make no mistake that Chas and I are in love and will be for many many years. It makes no difference to me what any of you think of that, but I wish you all no ill will. No point in me returning here. Happy New Year.

Best of luck,
NPG

[by-tor]

Now I come back here and see I've some how 'contributed to the war'? How, exactly? Anytime this was asked about in the other threads, I did not reply because I didn't want to feed the flames. I didn't PM people and say 'hey here's what Aero did' blah blah cos I THOUGHT there was this thing called 'water under the bridge.'

As far as I remember, I had said that I couldn't continue to post here if they did. They were asked to leave, NOT BY ME OR CHAS. I still did not feel right posting here right afterwards because I knew Aero et al still had friends here and I saw no point into getting into some unnecessary debate. So I chose to leave here for a while, let things chill out. I come back, no big 'HI I'm here' announcement, just started posting. But I guess that means I'm contributing to the war. Whatever.

It takes two to tango. You've been around message boards long enough to know that a flame war will die a quick death if one side doesn't respond to it. I understand the will to defend one's honor, being guilty of it from time to time myself, but the 'grown up' thing to do would have been to not respond, and let the mods take care of it. By responding (and personally attacking those who attacked you) you and Chas helped add fuel to the fire.

Events like this one have happend two other times on this board. Most here either don't remember it, or didn't even realize that it went on. Why? Because the person(s) being 'attacked' didn't take the flame bait, and allowed the situation to be handled by the mods and myself. Those 'wars' went away with barely a whimper.

I had posted here for a long time and made some lifelong friends. But if I'm going to be told that I contributed to the flame war, then I obviously cannot do anything to change that perception.

It's not a perception. By responding to the attack, you contributed. By personally attacking awip, Aerosmitten, and Sir Myghin, you and Chas contributed. It's not a matter of who started it, I know who did that.

Enjoy your board, make friends and get their email addresses. Cos chances are high you'll one day need them to keep in touch.

And you need the email addresses of people on here for what? You were not asked to leave. The people who attacked you were asked to leave. You're going to leave now, because I have stated what has happened here? Well, that's your choice, and you're not going to guilt me into feeling sorry for you about it.

Make no mistake that Chas and I are in love and will be for many many years. It makes no difference to me what any of you think of that, but I wish you all no ill will.

Who said you wern't?

No point in me returning here. Happy New Year.

Again, your choice.

[Chasartymac]

Right or wrong, y'all took part in a flame war on my site. As a result, you two 'left', and I asked two members on the other side to leave for their actions. Thanks to the four of you, and your inability to work out your differences, numerous people have left this board, and have divided most of those who are left here. 'Happy fuckin' new year'? Please. Look around and realize that what has happened here in the past few months is 1/4 your fault.

First, I took part in no flame war. Neither did NPG. We were attacked on the board for having a relationship that Aero, Lifesonite, SMG and awip thought was blasphemous, (although they were nice to our faces in other areas), all we did was defend ourselves from that attack.

I know you're going to say that you didn't start it, but you helped it continue. It took the four of you about two days to undo something we had here for years now, and I'm supposed to feel guilty that I moved a thread??? The only wound here is what has been done to this 'community'.

First, no I am not going to say I didn't start it, but I am going to say again, after defending against attacks from those members I received PMs from 2 of them about which I did nothing directly. The next thing I did was to forward them to you and said I am not going to do anything about this, instead I defer to your judgement as to what I should do. Do you remember that? You advised me and I acted accordingly. So, if any of this is my fault, it is by your direction entirely. Take your 1/4 back.

[Chasartymac]

It's not a perception. By responding to the attack, you contributed. By personally attacking awip, Aerosmitten, and Sir Myghin, you and Chas contributed. It's not a matter of who started it, I know who did that.

I think again it needs to be said that we made no personal attacks. We may have pointed out an ignorance simply due to lack of years and wisdom, but that is not an attack. However, I was called a heathen and both NPG and I were called adulterers and TOLD to keep our posts to our own threads. Anything after that I did after consulting with yourself and forwarding any further PMs that I sent or received.

[Chasartymac]

And you need the email addresses of people on here for what? You were not asked to leave. The people who attacked you were asked to leave. You're going to leave now, because I have stated what has happened here? Well, that's your choice, and you're not going to guilt me into feeling sorry for you about it.

NPG simply thinks it would be better to keep in touch with her friends via email rather than on the board. She did leave through her own choice, with no regrets.

[The Snow Dog]

...

Allright. Thanks to somebody, I know sort of what went on. Might I ask... WHAT THE HELL?

Are we not adults here? Well, technically I'm not, but still. Don't we remember what our parents told us? Be the bigger person and walk away? I've seen a jolly good load of flame-wars more than I'd care to, and I know for a fact that, as soon as one person/side stops, the war is over. There is no winner in such a battle of wits (or in some cases, upper-cased letters and insults regarding one's sexual orientation or mother), only losers. And the only way to lose, is to participate.

Now I never really interacted with you Chas, or NPG, but I saw enough to know that you's good people. And although I'm sad to see Myghin and Aero leave, I do understand that they started it. But why continue? Even if it's simply a fact being pointed out or a quip of some degree, it still adds fuel to a fire that otherwise would have sputtered out and died. If not from the opposing side giving up, then from the administration and mods stomping it out. They will get theirs, trust me.

That being said, I'ma continue on with my day-to-day life here at By-tor.com, and let dead dogs lie.

and if you think this is blatantly unnescisary By-tor, by all means, kill it.

*salutes*

[by-tor]

This is the last I'm going to say on the matter. If you think that some injustice has been served upon you two, that's your choice. You did ask me what to do about all this in a PM, and part of my response was this....

you can freely reply in kind via PM if you wish....I can ask them to leave you and NPG alone. All I ask is that any flame war stays off the board.

And yet you continued to post in the public forum after this. So how do you feel that you 'acted accordingly' based on my advice? I asked that it stay off the board, and you kept posting about it to the board.

So, if any of this is my fault, it is by your direction entirely. Take your 1/4 back.

Again, my direction was to keep it off the board, to which you did the exact opposite. The point you two seem to be missing is that it doesn't matter who started it and who was on the defensive, but by merely responding in open forum, it allowed the flame war to continue.

Even after you two told me you were leaving, y'all continued to post in that thread, which is something I denied Aerosmitten when I asked her to leave.

I think again it needs to be said that we made no personal attacks.

I still have the threads. You responded to personal attacks with personal attacks of your own. Yet again, after I asked you to keep it off the board.

Bottom line is, the community that was once this board is now in disarray due to a) the acts of two who decided to push their moral view, and b) the acts of two who didn't 'act accordingly' in response to the matter. I was forced into a situation where this board was going to be fucked no matter what action I took. If that isn't bad enough, after 'siding' with you and NPG, and asking the other two to leave, what do I get? You and NPG bitching that I moved a thread to the moderators area. You two get called names by a couple of teenagers, and it ends up costing me somthing that I've worked to put together for years now.

If all you're going to do here now is moan and groan about how you've been mistreated, do me a favor and take it somewhere else. If you two want to move forward, then by all means, post away...start a new 'Love Thread' if you want.

[DarkCityJay]

Jesus... Well, though unfortunate, I suppose it's comforting to know that my board isn't the only one gouging each others' eyes out.

[Chasartymac]

...


Be the bigger person and walk away?.....
And the only way to lose, is to participate.....
But why continue?

We did walk away. We came back a week or so ago and this all got pulled up again but not by us.

We didn't participate after the insulting PMs from Aero and SMG other than in PM and that was only 2 PMs before we left.

We didn't continue. Ask everyone who kept asking why is poor little Aero not here, and ask Walkinghair ball who happily pointed out that there were a few light comments buried in the Passions thread, (a thread about love), and so therefore should be removed, which had gone completely unnoticed and unremembered by everyone else ever since the shit hit the fan till now.

[Chasartymac]

This is the last I'm going to say on the matter. If you think that some injustice has been served upon you two, that's your choice. You did ask me what to do about all this in a PM, and part of my response was this....

you can freely reply in kind via PM if you wish....I can ask them to leave you and NPG alone. All I ask is that any flame war stays off the board.

And yet you continued to post in the public forum after this. So how do you feel that you 'acted accordingly' based on my advice? I asked that it stay off the board, and you kept posting about it to the board.

So, if any of this is my fault, it is by your direction entirely. Take your 1/4 back.

Again, my direction was to keep it off the board, to which you did the exact opposite. The point you two seem to be missing is that it doesn't matter who started it and who was on the defensive, but by merely responding in open forum, it allowed the flame war to continue.

Even after you two told me you were leaving, y'all continued to post in that thread, which is something I denied Aerosmitten when I asked her to leave.

I think again it needs to be said that we made no personal attacks.

I still have the threads. You responded to personal attacks with personal attacks of your own. Yet again, after I asked you to keep it off the board.

Bottom line is, the community that was once this board is now in disarray due to a) the acts of two who decided to push their moral view, and b) the acts of two who didn't 'act accordingly' in response to the matter. I was forced into a situation where this board was going to be fucked no matter what action I took. If that isn't bad enough, after 'siding' with you and NPG, and asking the other two to leave, what do I get? You and NPG bitching that I moved a thread to the moderators area. You two get called names by a couple of teenagers, and it ends up costing me somthing that I've worked to put together for years now.

If all you're going to do here now is moan and groan about how you've been mistreated, do me a favor and take it somewhere else. If you two want to move forward, then by all means, post away...start a new 'Love Thread' if you want.

I'm not sure who's saga you're remembering but it was not ours. It was a mild argument on the board about my avatar until the insulting PMs arrived from SMG and Aero. From that point forward we involved ourselves no more on the board with either of them, but I did follow your direction and PM them. In fact, Aero commented on my reply to her PM, and I quote,

Hey there,

I must say I am pleased you were able to respond to me in a very cival maner.

Where was I continuing a public war with her? Because neither myself or Aero seem to have noticed. After you advised me, I did what you suggested to the letter and even copied you in on all my responses and their responses to me, so you saw Aero's reply to me too, you seem to have forgotten how events took place.

When we told you we were leaving, we left. but we also said to you at that time that we did not wish for you to take action against them unless YOU felt it was neccessary. You even posted a board message telling everyone that. That was your decision alone. I think you need to define personal attacks because I don't remember making any. I may have defended against the comments directed at me, but I made no personal attacks, especially after you asked me to keep it off the board.

I think it is convenient for you to dump blame on me and NPG. If your board is failing don't blame it on us, we havent even been here for months, and all was fine when we left except for what went on, but then ...we left... If you think we have that much power and influence then I tip my hat to you. And as for moving a thread, 'not deleting it', to the mod forum is as good as deleting it as far as non mods are concerned. Our Passions thread was important to us.

Finally, I don't care about being mistreated. I think the Passions thread was moved unfairly, yes. BUT, what I do care about is you trying to blame me and NPG for the state of ByTor right now. That I do take exception to.

[Chasartymac]

And this will be the last I say on the matter. The day I sent you the PM entitled "Passing the Buck" where I said

Hi John,
Chas here. Um I received a couple of PMs and I'm lost for words. I cannot bring myself to reply or do anything about them except show them to you and ask what you thought I should do. The first is from Aerosmitten and the second is from Sir Myghin. I'm exhausted and numb by recent events, to be safe I'm defering to your judgement on what I should do.

is the very day that I also informed you that NPG was already so upset that she stopped posting right then. How she then continued a flame war and made personal attacks is beyond me, because that was still before you replied asking me to keep it on PMs, which I did, and even Aero commented on my civility. Only you think that NPG and I perpetuated the 'flame war' as you seem to be calling it, and made 'personal attacks'.

My reply to SMG's PM calling me a heathen with no moral stature was as follows, (bearing in mind I misread the end as saying '...shows NO mercy...'). Even so, I don't think I was flaming or making a personal attack and please note, this was a PM so I could have and still kept it off the board.

I have PMd Aerosmitten. I suggest you speak to her. Then think long and hard about what I say there and here, BEFORE you attempt a reply.

Obviously religion is a major influence on your life. This being the case your final comment I found to be wholly unChristian. I thought love, mercy and forgiveness were God's specialities to those who truly need and want them. Well I need the love of Tracy and I do NOT want any forgiveness or mercy, because I've done nothing wrong. Apart from that, I'm an athiest, so your comment was wasted anyway.

Have a happy life, I wish you joy in whatever teaches you lessons and helps you grow and adapt throughout life.

Remember it how you will, I also remember a lot of people giving Tracy and I support and saying the nicest of things that really meant something to us. You moved them so only the mods can read them too. But still you're blaming us for the sorry state of BT now?? After how we conducted ourselves, and our voluntary prolonged absence? My my, such real power Tracy and I have.

[Panacea]

Ged, what a horrible mess this has all become! I wish we could go back to the way things were a long time ago, where all the folk on this board got along. Sigh... I must admit it's not remotely as great a place to be as it once was. The life seems to have gone out of it, and that's very sad indeed.

[New World Man]

Sigh... I must admit it's not remotely as great a place to be as it once was. The life seems to have gone out of it, and that's very sad indeed.

Hey, don't give up on us Pan, we can make it what it once was!

Communities have shake ups sometimes, but it's how we weather the storm that shows our true character.

[schuette]

I agree with NWM

[happysmilies007]

please, people..

i hate this. i used to love this board.

i don't think there's anything i can say here that won't offend someone, so by-tor & Chas, i've pmed you both.

we are RUSH fans. NOT immoral heathens or unfair board administrators.

carolynn