Draft Legislation

awip2062 · Post by **awip2062** » Fri May 28, 2004 10:39 am

ER, if we ever meet, I will make fry bread for you.

awip2062 · Post by **awip2062** » Fri May 28, 2004 11:08 am

wcp wrote:i'm just trying to show that every institution has its ups and downs none deserves to be dimissed.

Criag, you don't mean that all forms of government are valid, do you? That no one form of government is better than the other? That it is all relative?

EndlesslyRocking · Post by **EndlesslyRocking** » Fri May 28, 2004 12:44 pm

awip2062 wrote:ER, if we ever meet, I will make fry bread for you.

I'll take you up on that someday.

Walkinghairball · Post by **Walkinghairball** » Fri May 28, 2004 11:14 pm

Me too, me too

wcp · Post by **wcp** » Sat May 29, 2004 6:04 am

Criag, you don't mean that all forms of government are valid, do you? That no one form of government is better than the other? That it is all relative?

not that no form is better, but that no form should be the only form, just because we are democratic doens't mean we should force everyone else to be.

awip2062 · Post by **awip2062** » Sat May 29, 2004 8:48 am

One cannot force a democracy.

Hairy, you are on for that!

Walkinghairball · Post by **Walkinghairball** » Sat May 29, 2004 10:57 am

Yesssssssssss!

ElfDude · Post by **ElfDude** » Sat May 29, 2004 11:06 am

wcp wrote: just because we are democratic doens't mean we should force everyone else to be.

We don't force or conquer... we liberate! That's been true for over a century.

awip2062 · Post by **awip2062** » Sat May 29, 2004 1:22 pm

I agree, we liberate and then it is up to the peoples to choose their system of government.

ElfDude · Post by **ElfDude** » Tue Jun 01, 2004 9:20 pm

EndlesslyRocking wrote: I don't object to the military per se. I'm very much against the current war, but that's not about the soldiers, that's about the government.

Hate the war, love the soldier.

Funny how these things nag at me for days until I finally have to respond...

A variation of this statement is being used by the left all over the country currently... "I support the troops, but I oppose the war." I'm not buying it and neither are the troops.

A soldier who wished to only be identified as Jesse in Fort Bragg, North Carolina was quoted today as saying, "... as a professional soldier I have a real problem with that. I'm highly insulted by it, and most of my peers feel pretty much the same way... You could sit here and you say you support the soldiers, but if you're sitting here and saying you don't support the president, you don't support the administration, then I got news for you: you're not supporting us. I can speak for quite a few people, especially in my own unit, that we all believe in what we're doing, and, you know, it's our duty to do so, and when our country calls it's our duty to answer to it."

And I especially have to question what it really means when the leftists in Washington say it. Let's count the ways they oppose defense spending. They oppose the weapons systems that the troops use to defend themselves, to defeat the enemy. They oppose defeating the enemy. They oppose the military leadership in favor of United Nations leadership. They oppose the mission. They oppose the military voting during presidential elections. They try to disqualify a bunch of military absentee ballots in Florida in 2000. How in light of this can one say that the left leadership supports the troops? It's nothing but rhetoric.

EndlesslyRocking · Post by **EndlesslyRocking** » Wed Jun 02, 2004 2:34 pm

ElfDude wrote:
EndlesslyRocking wrote: I don't object to the military per se. I'm very much against the current war, but that's not about the soldiers, that's about the government.

Hate the war, love the soldier.
Funny how these things nag at me for days until I finally have to respond...

A variation of this statement is being used by the left all over the country currently... "I support the troops, but I oppose the war." I'm not buying it and neither are the troops.

I had a long angry response to this, but discretion is the better part of valor.

Let me just say, as someone who works with Veterans every day, I'm very comfortable with my statement and that stand in general. It means I don't hate the soldiers or treat them disrespectfully because they were in a war I disagreed with. There'll be no spitting or yelling "baby killers" from this American.

And as for the hypocrisy of the right-wing, frankly, there's not enough space on this board to list it all. Remember it goes both ways.

Mr. Potatoe Head · Post by **Mr. Potatoe Head** » Wed Jun 02, 2004 5:27 pm

I'd like some of that bread, please?

We are becoming more and more isolated throughout the world as a super power. Trust isn't associated with truth. Soldiers do what they are told. freeing oppressed people with a strong hand oppressing those with oppresion on their minds futher into discontent. One must not assume changing a culture towards your own opinion will work. There in lies the underlying problem. Abuse towards another person whether woman or man should not be tolerated in any cluture and who said it was alright for you to kick the Kings dog?

Another thing leave the forth world forest dwellers alone!

DAM IT

ElfDude · Post by **ElfDude** » Wed Jun 02, 2004 7:50 pm

EndlesslyRocking wrote: Let me just say, as someone who works with Veterans every day, I'm very comfortable with my statement and that stand in general. It means I don't hate the soldiers or treat them disrespectfully because they were in a war I disagreed with. There'll be no spitting or yelling "baby killers" from this American.

Soldier Jesse and I were commenting on something that's being said a lot that really bugs us because we can hear what it really means. If that's not what you're saying... hmmm... let's put it this way; if the shoe doesn't fit, it wasn't meant for you.

EndlesslyRocking wrote: And as for the hypocrisy of the right-wing, frankly, there's not enough space on this board to list it all. Remember it goes both ways.

If you've got something specific in mind (not a sweeping, vague generalization), I'd appreciate the chance to respond to it.

ElfDude · Post by **ElfDude** » Wed Jun 02, 2004 7:58 pm

Mr. Potatoe Head wrote:One must not assume changing a culture towards your own opinion will work. There in lies the underlying problem.

Not that I disagree with that first statement, because at face value it's correct, but I need clarification...

Are you suggesting that the reason for the invasion of Iraq was that we (along with the Australians, Italians, British, and the 16 other NATO nations that weren't taking bribes from Saddam) simply wish to force western culture upon them?

Mr. Potatoe Head · Post by **Mr. Potatoe Head** » Wed Jun 02, 2004 8:30 pm

CLARIFICATION

Your not seeing the big picture.

Here is a painting I've been pulling together tonight "OPPRESSION"
You got to flip it on all four sides.

http://eshare.hpphoto.com/start.asp?Job ... 1327910979

(If the link above is not clickable, copy and paste or type it, directly into your browser.)