By-Tor.com

Yes folks...

Join the army;travel the world..

Meet lots of interesting people....

And kill them!

No thank you. yet another half baked idea brought to you by www.meddlingpoliticiansareus.com

WalkingHairyMan, what can we do to persuade you to open up? I would like to hear this.

Myg, why are you so opposed to military forces? Without the military forces of your country, you would be a part of the United States. Or Germany.

And have we all forgotten the words of the great Reverend Ell Wood? "You can't have freedom for free."

awip2062 wrote:
Myg, why are you so opposed to military forces? Without the military forces of your country, you would be a part of the United States. Or Germany.

I am so opposed to military forces mostly because of my philosophies, i have not struck another man unless sheerly to defend myself, and i refuse to go out of my way to strike the first blow against another. I do not beleive country to country conflict is just, and that conflict between leaders shouls be settled just as that, let them have damned duel or something, back to the days of hero kings and the likes.

There was no inherent righteousness in the times of old, men were MORE corrupt and hateful back then. Men were used as pawns more, if anything.

Is an army not just the pawn of the ruler sending it forth to fight?

There is no inherent goodness in man, period. Never was, never will be.

Men are used as pawns today and I would argue that they are more corrupt than they were.

awip2062 wrote:There is no inherent goodness in man, period. Never was, never will be.

Talk about a revealing post!

I don't object to the military per se. I'm very much against the current war, but that's not about the soldiers, that's about the government.

Hate the war, love the soldier.

Revealing post? Of course it was. Worldview statements like that always are.

And I can understand hate the war, love the soldier. Reminds me of another statement I often hear.

by-tor wrote:A democrat?!?!? Wow, never would have thought that.

A Southerner unfamiliar with the concept of a Southern Democrat?

As it seems, there is not enough support for a draft at this time. Thank goodness.

I believe that the able bodied person should serve his/her country. But, I'm not sure forcing our young is the way to get them to serve their country.

I know many men in my life that have served in our military. But they went on their terms, not by being forced by our government to do so. Yes, I even have men in my life that were in the military during Vietnam. Some of them went there, some of them "got lucky" and didn't go to Vietnam, but they still served with pride.


Correct me if I am wrong, but it seems that every time we are in WAR TIMES the recruits are low. Is this a poor attempt to try to get our young to enlist????

I would not vote for this bill. Especially the way it is written currently.

AAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH

Wow, this is scary! There?s controversy in a thread that I didn?t even start!

What?s even scarier is that I can remember being a teenager and saying the kind of stuff that Myghin is saying. And what truly saddens me is that people heard me say it, including my father. My father the World War 2 vet with two purple hearts (real purple hearts, one of them from taking a bullet in the knee, not John Kerry thorn scratch purple hearts to later be hurled over the White House fence in an angry protest and then to magically reappear in his office). My father who so loved the constitution and the freedoms that it provides that he was willing to put his life on the line to defend it.

And we?ve got at least two men in this forum of whom I know that have also been willing to put their lives on the line to defend the freedoms of their families and countrymen. And for that service they get called ?pawn of the ruler? and are accused of aiding in the ?destruction or looming threat to destroy ones fellow man?.

Fortunately, my patient father understood an old saying. I sometimes deserved to be slapped, but he was kind and said very little. The old saying has a lot of variations, and it?s proving impossible for me to find out who originally said it, but it basically says, ?If in your youth you are not a liberal, you have no heart. If in your adulthood you are not a conservative, you have no brain.? He dealt with me patiently and the day came that I began to understand the sacrifice he had made for his country, and for me. We celebrated his 80th birthday last winter. I try to take him out to dinner every Veteran?s Day and honor his service, though I think it embarrasses him a bit.

I suspect that the reason Soup4 and Hairball haven?t verbally clobbered Myghin for what he?s said about them is that they too understand the old saying.

It?s all well and good to not believe in the military, but it?s one of those ideals that are so high that they cannot have any practical reality in the world as it currently exists. If you get enough peaceniks to convince a nation that they need no military, the nation is very soon conquered by some tyrant who rounds up all the able-bodied men and either conscripts them into his own army or has them put to death.

You don?t get something for nothing.
You can?t have freedom for free.

Because of the military service of those before me and those around me now, I live in a country so strong, and so prosperous, that it can be engaged in a serious war where the enemy has vowed not to rest until pretty much every ?infidel? in my country is dead, and yet I can go on with my daily routine for the most part unaffected. That is not a blessing I take lightly. The more I think about it, the more the gratitude inside me swells. And on top of that we pump out billions of dollars a year to other countries all around the world in foreign aid? even to countries that never have one good thing to say about us. We didn?t achieve this by sitting around and being too morally superior to fight and defend ourselves from those who would kill us or take away our freedoms.

To the persons in this forum who have served their country through military service, I again offer thanks from the bottom of my heart.

War is an inevitable thing in this world and I think Myghin is just expressing his desire for an ideal world where there is no war. That is not lurking on the horizon and it will only begin to when people begin to view that philosophy. When ALL people begin to view that philosophy.

The world doesn't seem ready to take that step. While some countries might be, others are content to not progress. And I think that's what it's about in Iraq, securing the world for the future. Oh yeah, and Bush's oil buddies I just had to say it, I couldn't resist.

The first armies were built to destroy and conquest, the second armies were built to protect. Where do we fit into this?

*Lifesonite wrote: Oh yeah, and Bush's oil buddies I just had to say it, I couldn't resist.

I know that this was said in jest, but it's worth comment.

Even if the US simply confiscated all of Iraq?s oil and sold it, it would only add about 20 billion dollars to the US treasury each year. 20 billion dollars is a lot of money, but given that the US government spending is over 150 times greater than that, and the entire US economy is 500 times larger, the 20 billion is just pocket change.

Since the removal of Saddam, by mid-April, Iraq had sold 7.6 million barrels to five oil companies. All of the profits generated are going into Iraqi reconstruction, not into the pockets of Bush cronies. And not reconstruction from the devastations of war, but just in putting back together the coutry that Saddam raped, pillaged, and destroyed.

And that is good! They need it more than we do, for sure. It's good to have the actual numbers, thanks!