Gas and Oil

[YYZ30]

I liked Arnie as governor, until he said he didn't want anymore offshore drilling:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25252119/

When are we going to wake the fuck up and start taking care of our own needs???

[Big Blue Owl]

When are we going to wake the fuck up and start taking care of our own needs???

I don't know that we will until we realize that other, seemingly less sophisticated societies have been doing something about it for decades. As I posted before, Brazil is nearly energy self-sufficient using sugar cane ethanol.

Over the past three decades Brazil has worked to create a viable alternative to gasoline. With its sugarcane-based fuel, the nation may become energy independent this year. Brazil?s ethanol program, which originated in the 1970s in response to the uncertainties of the oil market, has enjoyed intermittent success. Still, many Brazilians are driving ?flexible fuel? cars that run on either ethanol or gasoline and allow the consumer to fill up with whichever option is cheaper ? often ethanol. Countries with large fuel bills such as India and China are following Brazil?s progress closely. The US is taking small steps towards the use of ethanol, but its process, relying on corn, is lengthier and more expensive.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol_fuel_in_Brazil
http://yaleglobal.yale.edu/display.article?id=6817
http://www.miamiherald.com/business/story/553903.html

[YYZ30]

When are we going to wake the fuck up and start taking care of our own needs???

I don't know that we will until we realize that other, seemingly less sophisticated societies have been doing something about it for decades. As I posted before, Brazil is nearly energy self-sufficient using sugar cane ethanol.

Over the past three decades Brazil has worked to create a viable alternative to gasoline. With its sugarcane-based fuel, the nation may become energy independent this year. Brazil?s ethanol program, which originated in the 1970s in response to the uncertainties of the oil market, has enjoyed intermittent success. Still, many Brazilians are driving ?flexible fuel? cars that run on either ethanol or gasoline and allow the consumer to fill up with whichever option is cheaper ? often ethanol. Countries with large fuel bills such as India and China are following Brazil?s progress closely. The US is taking small steps towards the use of ethanol, but its process, relying on corn, is lengthier and more expensive.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol_fuel_in_Brazil
http://yaleglobal.yale.edu/display.article?id=6817
http://www.miamiherald.com/business/story/553903.html

Then why not grow sugar cane? Can our soil handle that?

[CygnusX1]

When are we going to wake the fuck up and start taking care of our own needs???

I don't know that we will until we realize that other, seemingly less sophisticated societies have been doing something about it for decades. As I posted before, Brazil is nearly energy self-sufficient using sugar cane ethanol.

Over the past three decades Brazil has worked to create a viable alternative to gasoline. With its sugarcane-based fuel, the nation may become energy independent this year. Brazil?s ethanol program, which originated in the 1970s in response to the uncertainties of the oil market, has enjoyed intermittent success. Still, many Brazilians are driving ?flexible fuel? cars that run on either ethanol or gasoline and allow the consumer to fill up with whichever option is cheaper ? often ethanol. Countries with large fuel bills such as India and China are following Brazil?s progress closely. The US is taking small steps towards the use of ethanol, but its process, relying on corn, is lengthier and more expensive.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol_fuel_in_Brazil
http://yaleglobal.yale.edu/display.article?id=6817
http://www.miamiherald.com/business/story/553903.html

true, but even today they (Brazilians) have just enough to get by on.
They don't have enough to export, but I DO AGREE that FlexFuel needs to
appear here. NOW.

[CygnusX1]

Repost for validity:

See this? The desert plant (Jatropha) that scientists say produces
four times the fuel of corn?

"A plant with a poisonous nut that might hold the key to the nation's
energy troubles. .The nuts are more than 30 percent oil, which burns
with a clear flame, producing a fraction of the emissions of traditional
diesel. As a bonus, the oil can be used in simple diesel engines without
refining, just by mixing it with fuel. . .bushes are easy to grow, start
producing nuts quickly, and are resistant to drought..."

http://hypography.com/forums/terra-pret ... t-bio.html

[YYZ30]

Repost for validity:

See this? The desert plant (Jatropha) that scientists say produces
four times the fuel of corn?

"A plant with a poisonous nut that might hold the key to the nation's
energy troubles. .The nuts are more than 30 percent oil, which burns
with a clear flame, producing a fraction of the emissions of traditional
diesel. As a bonus, the oil can be used in simple diesel engines without
refining, just by mixing it with fuel. . .bushes are easy to grow, start
producing nuts quickly, and are resistant to drought..."

http://hypography.com/forums/terra-pret ... t-bio.html

And while the oil companies profit again at an all time high, they won't let this cat out of the bag, because it would kill their profits.

(Satire follows)

Oil exec-"Sorry son, we can't buy that 10th car because of those wacky scientists and the bushes they grow that ruined our record profits."

[Big Blue Owl]

(Brazilians) have just enough to get by on.
They don't have enough to export

Brazil says its ethanol exports will likely double to $1.3 billion in 2010 from $600 million in 2005, largely to Japan and Sweden.

More than 5,000 workers now help churn out about 880,000 tons of sugar and 185 million gallons of ethanol every year, working day and night, rain or shine. Nationwide, sugar-cane mills produced nearly 6 billion gallons of ethanol last year, with output projected to jump by 160 percent through 2016.

[CygnusX1]

all kidding aside, it's gonna be a glorious day when someone puts a
big boot in these SPECULATORS' (collective) asses.

Ben Stein was quoted last night as being present among a group of
SPECULATORS that know exactly what's going on, what they're doing,
laughed in Stein's face and told him they didn't give a shit (when
Stein warned them of the public outrage).

They are NOT LOOKING OUT FOR US.

[YYZ30]

(Brazilians) have just enough to get by on.
They don't have enough to export

Brazil says its ethanol exports will likely double to $1.3 billion in 2010 from $600 million in 2005, largely to Japan and Sweden.

More than 5,000 workers now help churn out about 880,000 tons of sugar and 185 million gallons of ethanol every year, working day and night, rain or shine. Nationwide, sugar-cane mills produced nearly 6 billion gallons of ethanol last year, with output projected to jump by 160 percent through 2016.

What is the US's take on oil yearly? Is there a figure on that?

[Big Blue Owl]

Oil - consumption: 20.8 million bbl/day (2005 est.)
Natural gas - consumption: 604 billion cu m (2005 est.)
Electricity - consumption: 3.816 trillion kWh (2005)

[CygnusX1]

(Brazilians) have just enough to get by on.
They don't have enough to export

Brazil says its ethanol exports will likely double to $1.3 billion in 2010 from $600 million in 2005, largely to Japan and Sweden.

More than 5,000 workers now help churn out about 880,000 tons of sugar and 185 million gallons of ethanol every year, working day and night, rain or shine. Nationwide, sugar-cane mills produced nearly 6 billion gallons of ethanol last year, with output projected to jump by 160 percent through 2016.

Here are some hard facts from 2005:

We are told repeatedly how Brazil has achieved energy independence by
the expansion of ethanol in their national energy mix. We are told
repeatedly that we should do the same. The truth is hugely different as
information comes out of Brazil such as the IBD article above (http://tinyurl.com/ya5dkv).

First some basics. Ethanol, gallon for gallon contains only 2/3 of the
energy found in a gallon of gasoline. This is why the mileage noticeably
drops when using ethanol in the mix. Obviously, the more ethanol in the
fuel mixture the lower the mileage. Second, it takes a huge amount of
energy to make the gallon of ethanol (often more energy than is in that
gallon of ethanol). Third, since the energy per gallon is so low, it takes
huge amounts of land to grow the corn (US) or the sugar cane (Brazil) to
be of any significance. Fourth, it takes huge amounts of water in the
distilleries in the ethanol making processes. This is often 4 gallons of
water per gallon of ethanol produced. That?s a lot. But the Brazilian
energy situation is much different from what we?ve been told even by our
National and Hawaiian elected officials.

Contrary to what we?ve been told, ethanol in Brazil is not a major source
of fuel for cars, and is not the prime reason why Brazil need not import
oil any more. By going all out in ethanol production in 2005, Brazil
produced 282,000 barrel/day of ethanol, most of it from sugar cane, not
corn.

However, Brazil gets most of is car fuel from onshore and offshore oil in
Brazil, not ethanol. Its oil production of about 1.9 million barrels per
day far outpaces its ethanol production. This oil production capacity is
slightly larger than what Brazil consumes per day. That is, there is no
need for oil imports. Several more oil rigs are scheduled to go into
production before the end of the year (http://tinyurl.com/ybwfh4).
In fact, if the numbers are correct, there really is no domestic need
for the ethanol either.

What?s more, we learn that 80% of the CO2 emissions in Brazil come
from deforestation, much of which went into the farming of sugar cane
(http://tinyurl.com/w5swf).

Former Brazilian president Lula de Silva did not celebrate this new energy
independence milestone in a sugar cane field. He did so by smashing a
champagne bottle on the huge Brazilian oil rig in the Albacora Leste field
off shore in the Atlantic Ocean.

To repeat, that?s offshore. Brazil?s oil independence had
little to do with ethanol.

It had everything to do with oil drilling onshore and offshore.

The Brazilians are taking their energy problems seriously and have even
greater plans. They have announced the construction of 7 new nuclear
power plants to be completed by 2025 to ensure energy sufficiency with
economic efficiency (http://tinyurl.com/y5wlsp). Brazil currently has two
operating reactors Angra 1 and 2 near Rio de Janeiro. Angra 3 will be
completed by 2010. This is a large nuclear power of German design, and
at 1275 MW(e) would provide nearly all of the electrical needs of Oahu.

Bill Clinton?s claim that ?If Brazil can do it, so can we?, is true in a
way he never imagined. The US should be drilling more offshore, and
building more new generation nuclear power plants. The Brazilians are
doing it. Why aren?t we?

It?s regrettable that the ethanol advocates distorted the Brazilian energy
situation. They have omitted about 90% of the energy picture there. It
gives false hopes to those believing that ethanol is an energy cure-all. It
is not.

Advocacy should never be permitted to trump the science and
engineering realities of energy.

[Big Blue Owl]

At least we still have poison nut bushes.

[CygnusX1]

How can I gets me one of them crazy poison nut bushes?

[Xanadu]

I'll just ride my bike.

[ElfDude]

King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia, whose nation is the world's number one oil exporter, called on consumer countries to get used to high prices in comments published on Tuesday.
"Consumer countries have to adapt to the prices and the mechanisms of the market," the king said in an interview published by the Kuwaiti daily Al-Siyassah.

"We have nothing to do with the current sharp increase in crude prices," he said reiterating the Saudi position that speculation, rising demand and the taxation of oil products in consumer countries were to blame.

"These countries must reduce their taxes on fuel.. if they want to contribute to easing the burden on ordinary consumers," he said.

I'm afraid the king is right.