So Does the World Want the US to be Their Savior After All?

awip2062 · Post by **awip2062** » Fri Oct 26, 2007 1:38 pm

Okay we hear so much about how hated we are in the world and how so many people think we stick our noses in too many places, should just go home, et cetera.

Now, this:

Mexicans miss money from relatives up north
By Elisabeth Malkin
Published: October 26, 2007
EL RODEO, Mexico: For years, millions of Mexican migrants working in the United States have sent money back home to villages like this one, money that allows families to pay medical bills and school fees, build houses and buy clothes or, if they save enough, maybe start a tiny business.

But after years of strong increases, the amount of migrant money flowing to Mexico has stagnated. From 2000 to 2006, remittances grew to nearly $24 billion a year from $6.6 billion, rising more than 20 percent some years. In 2007, the increase so far has been less than 2 percent.

Migrants and migration experts say a flagging American economy and an enforcement campaign against illegal workers in the United States have persuaded some migrants not to try to cross the border illegally to look for work. Others have decided to return to Mexico. And many of those who are staying in the United States are sending less money home.

In the rest of the world, remittances are rising, up as much as 10 percent a year, according to Donald Terry of the Inter-American Development Bank. Last year, migrant workers worldwide sent more than $300 billion to developing countries ? almost twice the amount of foreign direct investment.

But in Mexico, families are feeling squeezed...."

The rest of the story is found at: http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/10/26/ ... 6remit.php

Now we are bad guys because the money isn't flowing out of the US to other places? We are responsible that the economy of other nations is strong?

What about the President of Mexico doing what it takes to make his own country strong, not off the economy of his neighbor to the north but utilizing his own resources?

zepboy · Post by **zepboy** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 8:13 am

I think it shows that the welfare mentality isn't unique to U.S. citizens. People all over the globe want something for nothing, and when the going geds tough, we blame others rather than accept responsibility ourselves.

What the United States has done over the past several decades is nurture the world into expecting a handout. Our generosity is now expected rather than gratefully recieved.

In a sense, I think we are the viewed as "bad guys" because our generosity occasionally exceeds our resources, and there are those who feel unjustly left out. Hurt feelings often lead to lashing out.

Big Blue Owl · Post by **Big Blue Owl** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 6:48 am

Thanks for posting this story! I think it is a positive blurb in the war against illegal idiots. There are so many negs in the news every day about this pitiful (seemingly hopeless) situation, and to finally read some good news is...well, inspiring.

To all the bleeding heart illegal-lovers; May the status of your personal economy be forever drained by the unlawful leeches you hold so dear, and may it be true for your children, your children's children, and your children's children's children.

DoctorX · Post by **DoctorX** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 8:44 am

The whole situation with Mexico is much more complicated than immigration politics or US foreign policy.

The US is one of the most scientifically and technologically advanced countries in the world, outfitted with a representative democracy (or at least the remains of it). Just to the south of us, we have a country essentially run by organized crime and populated with a largely uneducated and fanatically Catholic electorate.

So yes, illegal immigration is a problem, and the US needs reform in both the ways that it issues work visas, deals with illegal immigrants, and prosecutes businesses that hire them. Mexico's government is part of the problem as well though. Mexico has yet to offer its citizens an attractive alternative, because the long-standing use of bribery and the spoils system undermines any attempt to implement enforcible laws or work towards meaningful reform.

And the US still has a certain segment of the population beholden to a WASP ideal, who fear immigrants in general. American politics has become a machine run on fear of so many things. Terrorists, immigrants, crime, China...you name it. Fear has become the operative description. Too often I observe fetishistic obsessions with making immigrants conform to the dominant culture of their adopted country. Nations ought to be defined by ideals and civics, not songs and symbols.

Lest we forget, Spanish is not even an immigrant language in the USA, as it was already present in Louisiana, Florida, Texas and the Southwest. People who associate Spanish in the US with illegal immigration have forgotten about the annexation of Puerto Rico, the war with Mexico, and the Mexican Cession. Hispanic culture predates American possession of many of the territories that Hispanics are a large group in. Hispanic culture has as much of claim on the history of much of the USA as English-speakers do. A great deal of Hispanics were living in the US before the present day borders were drawn.

OH, I'm sorry. Spanish is an immigrant language, but before anyone gets their snot in a knot about Latinos in the USA speaking Spanish as their primary language, ask yourself when was the last time you heard anyone speaking Cherokee, Navajo or Cree?

awip2062 · Post by **awip2062** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 9:10 pm

LOL

In my house, both Cherokee and Navajo have been spoken recently! Sorry, no Cree, however.

Walkinghairball · Post by **Walkinghairball** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 7:22 am

Go live in any other country, refuse to learn their language of choice, see how long you stay living there. It's SOOOOOOOOOOOOO much different here legal or illegal. We let it happen, hell we encourage it.

DoctorX · Post by **DoctorX** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 12:18 pm

There are similar situations in Ireland, Japan, The UK, Canada, and Germany.

There is nothing sacred about the US attachment to the English language. The majority of the US colonies simply belonged to England when we rebelled against it. English is not so much the language of the US as it is the language of the soldiers we killed to achieve independence. The notion that Hispanics should leave Spanish at home is akin to being frightened by gays acting gay in public, or black people who don't use pomade in their hair. Why is difference such a bad thing?

It is certainly helpful to learn English to participate in the larger society, but large pockets will not have to. Self-imposed ghettoization is not illegal or immoral, just unfortunate.

ElfDude · Post by **ElfDude** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 12:26 pm

DoctorX wrote: Why is difference such a bad thing?

In this case, becasue it is costing taxpayers (all of us) and business owners (and consequantly consumers... which is all of us again) a fortune. Bi-lingual schools, bi-lingual ballots, bi-lingual hospitals, etc.

When I went to live in France back in the 80's I certainly didn't demand that everything be in my language as well as theirs. I learned their language so I could function in their society.

Many years ago our congress did vote on whether our nation should function in English or German. English won.

Big Blue Owl · Post by **Big Blue Owl** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 12:37 pm

Yes, several of my favorite state parks have been turned into "ghettos" in this way. Now, after a hard day's work, when I want to go for a powerwalk or a relaxing hike on the trails, I can trip over the trash of the never-ending barbeque party going on under every shelter, every picnic space. The accordion music (sorry Elf) is so loud you just want to open fire in all directions. All sporting courts are full of people who did not just get off of work and all the benches are full of illegal alien women with anchor babies hanging on and crawling everywhere. I wonder how many of them I support. I wonder which ones have ID's that say "Gibson" "Hufnagle" and "Madison", and just who is the one that tried to buy an RV with my credit?
I understand the problem is now very complex, but I also know it's becoming more than just (with all due respect to personal experience)"unfortunate."

awip2062 · Post by **awip2062** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 1:52 pm

There is nothing wrong with differences, and I don't see that anyone here has a problem with the fact that immigrants are different.

[quote]The notion that Hispanics should leave Spanish at home is akin to being frightened by gays acting gay in public, or black people who don't use pomade in their hair.[\quote]
Actually, these are not the same thing.

My issue isn't that they leave their language behind simply because they come here. How can I demand that when some of the people I love the most are immigrants who speak their native tongues in their homes with their families? When I spoke Japanese and German before I ever knew any English myself?

I love languages and think it is a good thing for us to know multiple ones. I like to see immigrants come here and keep their language and their culture in their homes, in their lives; to share their ways with us.

But, I do want them to be able to communicate. We simply cannot have all necessary service paperwork in all languages that might be spoken by someone who comes here nor can we have all the service personnel speaking all those languages.

Nor can the common citizens interact with these people in a meaningful way.

What happens when these immigrants need to deal with our government, the schools, the doctors and nurses in the emergency room? They hope that there is someone there who speaks their language. Or they point to a piece of paper that has a ton of lanugages on it saying something to the effect of, "Point to your langauge and we will find a translator" and wait for the translator.

Now think if they learnt our language. They don't have to give up their native tonuge, they can even use it when out and about with each other, but they would be able to talk to you and me and the police and the hospital workers and the teachers and, and, and, without difficulty, without having to wait for someone to come and translate, without us having to print the same form in a multitude of languages.

Mr. Potatoe Head · Post by **Mr. Potatoe Head** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 2:57 pm

I don't want nor need to interject myself into anyone's ethnic back ground but I am sure there was culture clashes with 99.9 percent of immigrants from which most of us belong. However the immigrants of the past learned English so we can all have a common language for the betterment of all. People here in America are Native Americans Dawn is an American Indian.
I think that most of us being put in a Native Mexican's shoes we would do the same thing, come here to work. To bad that some Native American's won't work because some of those jobs are beneath them and that pisses me off more than the Mexican's crossing our boarder to work. At any rate we all came from someplace other than here (except Dawn) and at one time or another we all were barking dogs in the street so in my opinion I have no place to complain, on the other hand Dawn does.

Just my 2 cents worth out of a dollars worth of opinion

DoctorX · Post by **DoctorX** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 5:49 pm

ElfDude wrote: Many years ago our congress did vote on whether our nation should function in English or German. English won.

http://www.snopes.com/language/apocryph/german.asp

The United States has no official language, and never has. I hope it won't either.

When I went to live in France back in the 80's I certainly didn't demand that everything be in my language as well as theirs. I learned their language so I could function in their society.

Certainly a good idea. I am hesitant to visit France, largely because the French have a reputation for insular nationalism, and hostility towards anyone who does not know French. They're quite similar to the US in that way, and it makes sense that the two nations have an intense dislike for one another.

ElfDude · Post by **ElfDude** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 7:35 pm

DoctorX wrote:
ElfDude wrote: Many years ago our congress did vote on whether our nation should function in English or German. English won.
http://www.snopes.com/language/apocryph/german.asp

The United States has no official language, and never has. I hope it won't either.

Read my statement again. Though I could have worded it better, I never used the term "official language". The source you used to debunk my statement pretty much confirmed it (though I should have said "Senate did vote" instead of "congress did vote"):

The House debated translating federal statutes into German again on 16 February 1795, but the final result was the approval of a bill to publish existing and future federal statutes in English only. This bill was approved by the Senate as well and signed into law by President George Washington a month later.

Wendy · Post by **Wendy** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 12:58 am

Language=Music
Music = Language
Sum of ABOVE= Peaceful Multilingualisms

Too bad we can't just all communicate in peaceful tones.

One World!

Big Blue Owl · Post by **Big Blue Owl** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 12:16 pm

Geez, I sound like some kinda Archie Bunker bigotidiot.
I guess I'm just worried about the eventual explosion and the present irritations, if not dangers.
At least I hope that's what it is.